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	<title>Comments on: Beta Bath</title>
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	<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/</link>
	<description>Play music. Play the Web.</description>
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		<title>By: Loan Rate &#62;&#62; How can I refinance my cc ...</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-65572</link>
		<dc:creator>Loan Rate &#62;&#62; How can I refinance my cc ...</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 13:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-65572</guid>
		<description>..]other great source on this topicis ,blog.songbirdnest.com,..]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>..]other great source on this topicis ,blog.songbirdnest.com,..]</p>
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		<title>By: Kartikay</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64708</link>
		<dc:creator>Kartikay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64708</guid>
		<description>Wheres the 1.4 final? Damnit I&#039;ve been waiting .. waiting .. waiting too long!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wheres the 1.4 final? Damnit I&#8217;ve been waiting .. waiting .. waiting too long!</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64706</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 12:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64706</guid>
		<description>I checked the roadmap and it seems that 1.4 will not be available on its own. because we are reaching Kanye release date.
Does the delay means you are working on a cross platform release or after this delay you will only release the windows version</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I checked the roadmap and it seems that 1.4 will not be available on its own. because we are reaching Kanye release date.<br />
Does the delay means you are working on a cross platform release or after this delay you will only release the windows version</p>
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		<title>By: Astron</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64465</link>
		<dc:creator>Astron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64465</guid>
		<description>Why the hell are you using a proprietary component for ripping? I can&#039;t believe it. The proprietary parts used to be limited to add-ons, but now you are actually creating a core component based on a proprietary product. I know, cross-platform ripping is hard and I know you need to ship things now (to satisfy investors), but this is the wrong way (even if it is license-compatible).
It is just as wrong to make Mac and Linux second-tier platforms (as someone else already pointed out) -- users (like me, I admit) won&#039;t help you with witing code.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why the hell are you using a proprietary component for ripping? I can&#8217;t believe it. The proprietary parts used to be limited to add-ons, but now you are actually creating a core component based on a proprietary product. I know, cross-platform ripping is hard and I know you need to ship things now (to satisfy investors), but this is the wrong way (even if it is license-compatible).<br />
It is just as wrong to make Mac and Linux second-tier platforms (as someone else already pointed out) &#8212; users (like me, I admit) won&#8217;t help you with witing code.</p>
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		<title>By: Mysti</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64408</link>
		<dc:creator>Mysti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64408</guid>
		<description>One more question.  When you rip cds is it just supposed to start or is there a button?  I got this big warning saying that this version of songbird is not designed to run on your version of windows which is Win7 Ultimate 32bit.  so maybe thats why I cannot rip?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more question.  When you rip cds is it just supposed to start or is there a button?  I got this big warning saying that this version of songbird is not designed to run on your version of windows which is Win7 Ultimate 32bit.  so maybe thats why I cannot rip?</p>
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		<title>By: Mysti</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64407</link>
		<dc:creator>Mysti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64407</guid>
		<description>I finally found the cd ripping tab but i don&#039;t understand why i cannot rip to mp3.  Its like the standard music file type across the board and yet I get the semi obscure ogg, WMA and flac? WTF.  I just want a plain ol MP3.  Hopefully Kanye will have this.

PS totally offtopic.. 
how do you guys come up with names for releases. Some of them are hilarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finally found the cd ripping tab but i don&#8217;t understand why i cannot rip to mp3.  Its like the standard music file type across the board and yet I get the semi obscure ogg, WMA and flac? WTF.  I just want a plain ol MP3.  Hopefully Kanye will have this.</p>
<p>PS totally offtopic..<br />
how do you guys come up with names for releases. Some of them are hilarious.</p>
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		<title>By: forest</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64150</link>
		<dc:creator>forest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64150</guid>
		<description>@ ethanjim

So the crux of your argument is basically that Banshee is not struggling like Songbird because Songbird has more money?  Songbird has a team of professional people paid to work full-time on their product.  Banshee is developed primarily by volunteers.  I hardly see how this is an advantage for Banshee.  Usually, the point of paying people is that it frees up time so they have more time to work on something, not less.

But putting that issue aside, you are also mistaken about &quot;UNIX based type&quot; operating systems.  The next release of Banshee runs on Windows.  It&#039;s actually a fairly straightforward port since Banshee is written in Mono, which is basically an open source implementation of Microsoft&#039;s .Net development framework.

You are right that Windows users significantly outnumber Linux and Mac users, but I don&#039;t particularly buy your argument that this is the best strategy for Songbird.  Microsoft has a monopoly on users, but Linux and OS/X have a monopoly on open source software developers.  If you want the community to help develop your product then you have to give them a carrot.  What kind of Linux or Mac user is going to volunteer time working on a software project that doesn&#039;t offer the same basic features to them as everyone else?  Actually, forget the &quot;same basic features.&quot;  POTI can&#039;t even be bothered to change the Roadmap so that it accurately reflects the fact that key features are Windows-only.  That is misleading and harmful to their end goal.

Besides, there are a number of companies making money writing code for Linux.  I can think of Canonical, Red Hat, Novell, Intel, and Google, just to name a few.  Money is really not the issue for POTI.

The big difference as I see it is that Songbird is taking forever to mature.  The project hardly seems as relevant these days as when it started, and I&#039;m not convinced that it will still be around in 5 years as you suggest.  I hope I&#039;m wrong because I do still believe in their lofty goals, but the thing is, computers are getting smaller, not faster.  Songbird is a 900 pound gorilla, and it&#039;s always playing catch-up on features.  On the other hand, Banshee has a lot of momentum.  Their product is maturing at an amazingly quick pace, and it seems like they have more practical ambitions than Songbird that better fit into the direction computers are heading.

For example, I could never run Songbird on a netbook, but Banshee runs just fine on slow computers and even has a new alternate user-interface specifically designed for small screens.  Most people don&#039;t listen to music on a computer anymore; they listen to it on an mp3 player or a phone.  Banshee has the potential to run on a phone.  Songbird does not.  So while I love the idea behind Songbird, I&#039;m just not convinced that the project is really going anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ ethanjim</p>
<p>So the crux of your argument is basically that Banshee is not struggling like Songbird because Songbird has more money?  Songbird has a team of professional people paid to work full-time on their product.  Banshee is developed primarily by volunteers.  I hardly see how this is an advantage for Banshee.  Usually, the point of paying people is that it frees up time so they have more time to work on something, not less.</p>
<p>But putting that issue aside, you are also mistaken about &#8220;UNIX based type&#8221; operating systems.  The next release of Banshee runs on Windows.  It&#8217;s actually a fairly straightforward port since Banshee is written in Mono, which is basically an open source implementation of Microsoft&#8217;s .Net development framework.</p>
<p>You are right that Windows users significantly outnumber Linux and Mac users, but I don&#8217;t particularly buy your argument that this is the best strategy for Songbird.  Microsoft has a monopoly on users, but Linux and OS/X have a monopoly on open source software developers.  If you want the community to help develop your product then you have to give them a carrot.  What kind of Linux or Mac user is going to volunteer time working on a software project that doesn&#8217;t offer the same basic features to them as everyone else?  Actually, forget the &#8220;same basic features.&#8221;  POTI can&#8217;t even be bothered to change the Roadmap so that it accurately reflects the fact that key features are Windows-only.  That is misleading and harmful to their end goal.</p>
<p>Besides, there are a number of companies making money writing code for Linux.  I can think of Canonical, Red Hat, Novell, Intel, and Google, just to name a few.  Money is really not the issue for POTI.</p>
<p>The big difference as I see it is that Songbird is taking forever to mature.  The project hardly seems as relevant these days as when it started, and I&#8217;m not convinced that it will still be around in 5 years as you suggest.  I hope I&#8217;m wrong because I do still believe in their lofty goals, but the thing is, computers are getting smaller, not faster.  Songbird is a 900 pound gorilla, and it&#8217;s always playing catch-up on features.  On the other hand, Banshee has a lot of momentum.  Their product is maturing at an amazingly quick pace, and it seems like they have more practical ambitions than Songbird that better fit into the direction computers are heading.</p>
<p>For example, I could never run Songbird on a netbook, but Banshee runs just fine on slow computers and even has a new alternate user-interface specifically designed for small screens.  Most people don&#8217;t listen to music on a computer anymore; they listen to it on an mp3 player or a phone.  Banshee has the potential to run on a phone.  Songbird does not.  So while I love the idea behind Songbird, I&#8217;m just not convinced that the project is really going anywhere.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ethanjim</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64141</link>
		<dc:creator>ethanjim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64141</guid>
		<description>@Forest,
After looking at banshee it appears that the difference is that Songbird has a company behind it, and obviously creating resources and features is allot harder when you also need to be keeping books and making sure you have funding. Hence why many of the features are Windows based, because the biggest target audience will be Windows users. Lately I heard that 1 in 100 computer users are on a Linux based machine and 1 in 10 bought computers are macs... so that&#039;s 11/100 possible unhappy customers who have a problem with songbirds lack of features on their systems.

With POTI potentially trying to license songbird to companies it would therefore make sense for it to be more windows based because they need to make money. So maybe in 5 years time Banshee might not be being developed any more but POTI will be making money from songbird still? If they actually had to deviate from a UNIX based type of operating system and had to use multiple sources of libraries to implement features I would expect they&#039;d struggle a bit like POTI.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Forest,<br />
After looking at banshee it appears that the difference is that Songbird has a company behind it, and obviously creating resources and features is allot harder when you also need to be keeping books and making sure you have funding. Hence why many of the features are Windows based, because the biggest target audience will be Windows users. Lately I heard that 1 in 100 computer users are on a Linux based machine and 1 in 10 bought computers are macs&#8230; so that&#8217;s 11/100 possible unhappy customers who have a problem with songbirds lack of features on their systems.</p>
<p>With POTI potentially trying to license songbird to companies it would therefore make sense for it to be more windows based because they need to make money. So maybe in 5 years time Banshee might not be being developed any more but POTI will be making money from songbird still? If they actually had to deviate from a UNIX based type of operating system and had to use multiple sources of libraries to implement features I would expect they&#8217;d struggle a bit like POTI.</p>
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		<title>By: John Slimak</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64135</link>
		<dc:creator>John Slimak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:52:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64135</guid>
		<description>Am I and the three or so other people the only ones who are having lots of trouble syncing an iPod with the 1.4 branch?  It seems nobody has mentioned it at all, so I assume the issue is unique to iPods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I and the three or so other people the only ones who are having lots of trouble syncing an iPod with the 1.4 branch?  It seems nobody has mentioned it at all, so I assume the issue is unique to iPods.</p>
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		<title>By: Forest</title>
		<link>http://blog.songbirdnest.com/2009/10/08/beta-bath/comment-page-1/#comment-64134</link>
		<dc:creator>Forest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 19:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.songbirdnest.com/?p=1717#comment-64134</guid>
		<description>meh, my previous post was inteded for naaaaa, not molecule-eye</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>meh, my previous post was inteded for naaaaa, not molecule-eye</p>
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