As many of you know, supporting the iPod devices has been a continual game of catchup for Songbird (and anyone else attempting to build on top of Apple’s closed iPod APIs). As Apple releases new models, there are inevitably new wrinkles to the protocol that unfortunately make it harder and harder to reverse engineer and support. In our last release, in an effort to build something more sustainable and supportable, we moved to supporting iTunes Import/Export and now encourage our iPod and iPhone users to use that mechanism to support better syncing with their devices.
This is more than just keeping up with The Joneses iTunes. It’s a seamless way to ensure you’re getting the firmware updates you need from iTunes and the music you discover on Songbird all onto your device safely and easily.
To this end, we’ve decided to open source our existing iPod Device Support add-on. Built upon the great efforts of the libgpod crew, our iPod add-on still supports a good range of iPod devices. Given our limited resources, we’ve decided to support iTunes Import/Export with our own development time, while opening the source to our iPod add-on to the community so other developers can extend and enhance it. If you have bug fixes, or patches to the iPod add-on, please submit them via our Bugzilla, and we’ll happily review and accept patches to the add-on.
This also means QA won’t be testing against iPods anymore so we’ll need your support to help keep us in the loop on what’s working and what’s not. Let us know when you break new ground and build it against the new open source iPod library that is rumored to work with iPod Touch/iPhones [SUCCESS] or when we bust something in a new release [FAIL] and we’ll update the iPod Device Support page accordingly.
Ready to get started? Grab the source code and get going! If you want to build the extension on Windows, you’ll need to add
ac_add_options --with-extensions=default,ipod
to your songbird.config file after you download the DDK. If you need a little help to get the ball rolling, hop into the Songbird Developers Google Group and we’ll do what we can to help.
It’s a little tough watching our iPod add-on leave the nest, but we know you’ll take good care of it.
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[...] to be a valid alternative to iTunes. That changed today as a blog post revealed that Songbird was open-sourcing their iPod Device Support Add-on, essentially cutting off official support for the most popular media devices in the [...]
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22 Comments
SubscribeI need some clarification:
Does this mean that anybody who wants to use Songbird as a replacement for iTunes must have both Songbird AND iTunes installed to sync tracks, update firmware, etc. to newer devices?
Is there a large support structure already in place to take over the iPod Add-on or is this something you guys are winging (pardon the pun)?
If that is the case. Other then the fact that Songbird is open source, why not just use iTunes if you own an iPod/iPhone? Why should one continue to use Songbird? I don’t want to switch to iTunes (or even have that thing occupying space on my hard drive), I just want to figure out the value of staying with Sb.
(Can’t find the mood field: I’m sad and confused)
That’s a good and honest move. Let’s hope there is really some work going into this. I really don’t feel like installing iTunes through Wine on my linux box just to be able to sync Songbird with my iPod..
It’s too sad Apple doesn’t just make an open API. But well, my solution at the moment is simply the FolderSync addon in Songbird and Rockbox on my iPod Nano.
This is very sad news! One of my main reasons for moving to Songbird was to be able to get rid of itunes altogether (& more importantly the guff like apple update, quicktime, bonjour, etc, etc that comes with it). Why would I bother using songbird at all now if I still need to keep itunes anyway?
I do like the good work going on with Songbird and I know I should really direct my annoyance at apple for not opening up their API, but its still sad news that I won’t be able to get rid of itunes once & for all.
Yes, bad news… But i understand that the goal to totally replace iTunes can’t be achieved. I suppose with ever firmware upgrade, every fresh device new problems are popping up. For a serious company its impossible to guarantee full iPod support under these circumstances. So this is a honest move even though a sad move for the community. I wont switch back over to iTunes because Songbird still has a lot to offer what iTunes doesnt. Songbird still is my media player of choice because it still gives me more freedom and fits my philosophy of how software should be and how companies should operate.
I think this could be a big mistake. Given the marketshare that the iPod and iPhone have, supporting them should be a key goal for Songbird.
It might be troublesome, it might not sit well with open-source ethics, but the sheer numbers of iPod/iPhone users means you can’t just ignore it. I’ve seen people shot down on Linux forums for talking about iPods or AAC encoding and so forth, but it’s really important to casual, everyday computer users.
Syncing with iTunes won’t get people using Songbird. It’s far more convenient to use iTunes and you have to make a mental note to use Songbird. People want a complete solution, which is why people are asking for CD ripping, even when they can get it elsewhere.
Syncing with iTunes also doesn’t help Linux users and I speak as an iPhone owner who has switched from Linux but would be happy to go back if it supported my phone. (and in case anyone argues, take a look at the quality and range of iPhone games on Touch Arcade before telling me to use a Nokia or something. I like my iPhone and I’m sticking with it)
I’m not saying you should neglect work in getting the other core functionality in place. That stuff has to come first. But open-source needs an organised company to take on iPod integration seriously. There’s a closed-source Windows music player that works with the iPod Touch/iPhone for example.
There’s software out there to copy tracks back and forth and they already support iPhoneOS 3.0 but how come these little amateur apps get there first and their code is not expanded into syncing by the bigger projects?
iPhone jailbreaking apps usually appear before the new firmware even gets launched. What a contrast to the music player world where Rhythmbox, gtkpod, Banshee, Amarok and Songbird aren’t close and from an outsider’s perspective, there’s a non-commital attitude to getting it working in the main project teams.
I’m genuinely disappointed about this.
Actually, clearly the goal here is not abandoning iPod support but providing the best mainstream iPod/iTunes support possible with iTunes Import/Export rather than the constant catchup game that is iPod device support. Those who don’t wish to run iTunes are still supported by the iPod plugin it’s just no longer getting development time from the songbird team. Given the volume of open source coders out there, you can be pretty sure one or two will be able to find the time to recompile the iPod add on when a new version of libgpod is released.
I don’t understand why people are complaining like this;
“Anybody who wants to use Songbird as a replacement for iTunes must have both Songbird AND iTunes installed”.
“One of my main reasons for moving to Songbird was to be able to get rid of itunes altogether”.
No offence to those people I just took the first ones I saw. Complaining makes no sense as NOTHING HAS CHANGED. The iPod add-on has not disappeared or regressed and it is in the exact same state it was in before this announcement was made.
This looks to me like a very good thing. Obviously the Songbird team haven’t made much progress with the iPod add-on recently. Open sourcing the add-on should allow for more innovation due to more people working with the code. I am very hopeful for album art and lyric syncing to come from the community and I’m sure new device support is inevitable. Am I being too optimistic?
And for the cover and lyrics?
As much as the idea of using iTunes import/export makes sense, as a linux user I don’t really have that option. In fact, that was the reason that I tried Songbird in the first place, as a replacement for iTunes on linux (which is what it has been punted as since it was launched). Unfortunately it seems to be less of an iTunes killer and more of an iTunes feeder right now!
All I can hope for is that the iPod addon keeps getting the love you guys have been giving it, even after it is ‘released’ to the community. However, maybe it’s time to replace that iPod.
Nevertheless, I really appreciate the work you Songbird guys have being doing, and this is still a killer app! Many thanks.
I think it’s a good move, Apple should open their protocols to let people build application to support iPods and iPhones.
Songbird is an Open software, so the software should support devices with Open protocols and let other down.
Buying Apple’s products is a trap because :
* You need to use close source software
* They are expensive
* They are not ecologic
* They are limited to some format/doesn’t support Open formats
* They can explode, burn, etc…
Do a good move and support Open formats, protocols…
“I think it’s a good move, Apple should open their protocols to let people build application to support iPods and iPhones.”
And do you really see that happening? Buying Apple’s products may be a “trap”, but there are millions of consumers who don’t consider this, and millions more who’ve done the research and want an iPhone/iPod Touch for very valid reasons. Nice principle and everything, but this is one open-source mentality I disagree. You need to work with people to achieve change, not bombard a select few with ideology that they could scarcely care less about.
@Chris
Isn’t Apple bombarding a select *lot* with ideology that no ones cares about… until people are trapped because of proprietary technology?
Ideology is on both side.
People knew it when they bought their iPod. But now they want everything: a nice and shiny device plus openness… no, they just have to realize that at the moment they could, but definitely not with Apple.
Sadly for Songbird, this makes a lot of Apple-ideology-blind people that could also be users, but again, there are plenty of developers that will joint the open team to tackle the “closed” issues provided by Apple, for sure.
@Toto
Of course Apple are, but it’s the same ideology used by everyone from McDonalds to Loreal to Sky. They just repeatedly tell you that you really really want whatever it is they’re selling because it’ll make you a happier, better person. It’s easy to see that people buy into that ideology, regardless of the bad things Coca Cola or Nestle or whoever commit around the world.
My opinion is that you need to compete by offering a better product that slots into people’s existing lives. By breaking the software-hardware bond Apple has (just like the Windows-Office bond that Microsoft has) you can perhaps achieve change. Banging the drum and asking people to make sacrifices will never work, in my opinion at least.
I’d hoped that the Songbird team could contribute to libgpod (which has lagged somewhat previous) to spearhead an organised, focused effort to support the latest Apple firmware as close to release as possible, just as seem to be happening in the iPhone jailbreaking world. I still hope that we’ll get there sooner or later.
Thanks to all from The Nest for the great conversation. It’s pretty clear you all get it — the bottom line is our effort to continually support this add-on was taking away from our ability to focus on new features you have been asking for, and capabilities that are more completely in our control! Our open source community continues to be very dedicated and passionate when it comes to creating and supporting add-ons — old and new. We’re optimistic a flock will form soon that may want to fly with this one!
As far as keeping iTunes around, it’s true there’s not much of a way around that. Apps, firmware, and the like pretty much have to be managed by Apple. Our sync support offers owners of those devices a way to keep their iTunes and Songbird libraries and playlists in lock-step. So when it comes to playing and managing your music, Songbird can still be your one stop solution – even on an iPod.
Thanks for your support. And keep the comments and ideas coming!
“People knew it when they bought their iPod.”
Yes. It’s our fault we brought proprietary garbage. I’m in the green because I have an older 80 GB Rockboxed ipod, and I could care less about album art, lyrics, et cetera. But people with flashy new ipod touches should not be disappointed because not everything supports it. That’s one of the main drawbacks with Apple – You may get a decent product, but you have a decent product that will work only with THEIR stuff.
I have to say I think it’s kind of sad to see so many people complaining about this move. Apple has made it very clear that they don’t want other programs to support the iPod and iPhone. The “speedbumps” in support aren’t from neglect and the occasional thing changing in the API, that stuff is easy to work around, even they create short gaps in support. The hicups are from Apple deliberately locking non iTunes programs out of iPod/iPhone access. I have an iPhone only because I got it for free from a friend who had upgraded to a 3G iPhone. The fact that no one else has come out with an MP3 player that competes on total experience (especially battery life) is a sad sad statement about the electronics industry. I can tell you I will be ditching my iPhone the instant an Android machine with decent music support comes out on ATT, and I will be happy to be rid of it, mostly for the reasons highlighted by this change.
I just say give it all some time. I think this could be a good move, but there’s no way of knowing in such a short period of time
Chauncellor is totally in the right; the iPod hardware is more reliable at the cost of software exclusivity. It’s not a decision I was happy to have made, but my iPod has proved time and time again that it is a quality piece of hardware. It’s the software that’s flawed. Victor is also correct in lamenting the lack of competing hardware performing at the same level.
I did a bit of research when I got my iPod to see if there were any healthy alternatives to iTunes. A few programs were free but inflexible, and some more robust clients wanted money when iTunes was free and just as packed with features. It wasn’t ’til Songbird came around that I considered otherwise. Not only did it load my iPod but it had browser functionality as well!
It wasn’t until Chrome was released that I stopped using Songbird as my primary browser, and this change was for many reasons. But I still enjoyed heartily the use of Songbird as an iTunes alternative, even though I had to use WMP to rip my music.
But as it is now clear, the Songbird team has been derailed by the Apple software developers in their attempts to “fix” the constant updates of the Apple hardware/software. And this is lamentable; every time I load something from my library, there’s a 50% chance it won’t even play, not to mention a lack of artwork and the occasional forced factory reset due to file displacement. And with the announcement of iPod compatibility development and fixes being abandoned, I don’t see an practicality in keeping Songbird. I’ll keep my ear to the ground to see if the open-sourced iPod add-on improves, but until then I have no reason to use Songbird; Chrome is my preferred browser, and iTunes does what Songbird now cannot.
I’m surprised noone mentioned soliciting making Songbird the official Media manager of the Palm Pre.
yep ive waited and waited choose songbird cause it is great and the fact it had Ipod Support most Popular media device ever but since there is no ipod touch support im no longer supporting songbird sorry i no its hard work but people that choose to start a media player and wants to compete with others with out complete ipod support is beyond me …Winamp and media monkey have a way around it, CopyTrans Manager has Great ipod touch support and im sure theres many more so so long songbird i will be back in the furture if theres progress
So then give up on it….They’re not interested in your software working with their devices. Instead spend your energies on devices that are open and provide the least obstacles to your endeavor. In fact, I would suggest that the majority of your users aren’t even iPod users. Most iPod users use iTunes.
If Songbird developers concentrated on hardware which lacked the functionality that Songbird provides, Songbird would be a far more popular application.(even though it’s pretty popular already I think it would increase exponentially) There are so many more opportunities out there with Android, Palm’s new WebOS, Linux phones, etc. that I think it’s time to stop obsessing with Apple. If they want out, then so be it.
Songbird is not in Apple’s game plans nor would it ever be. It’s not a knock on Apple, but they have developed their own thing and they are concentrating on building a better experience for their customers through their products.
Songbird should do the same.
I can’t find enough information about the apps to tell if they are open source. I would imagine that Wordpress will be extremely popular, but you might have to name it or describe as the “official” wordpress app. The reason I say that is facebook has shown unofficial apps and groups that suggest they are the official ones. It can get confusing and describing it as such might help people find the one you guys made.