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42 Comments
SubscribeHeh heh heh…
Mmmm, stays crunchy in milk. But apparently gives you gas?
You bit off more than you could chew with the Songbird 0.1 release, and it’s not gonna heppen this month, just come out and say it instead of posting silly pictures and writeups.
Seriously guys, first you say it’s going to come out before Christmas, now it’s almost half way into the next month. Can you guys not reach deadlines or something?
Everyone here LOVES the product. We don’t care how buggy it is, we just want to TRY IT OUT. And you’ll get ALOT of help this way if you’d ever just release it.
Been subscrbing to the feed for a while now
Everytime something new shows up i get a little excited, and then a little disapointed that there’s no release yet. Oh well, the picture made me smile.
And i know it takes a lot of hard to release a solid media player.
I’ll wait patiently from the shadows, and hope that the wait will be worth it
part of the beauty of the alpha stage is you can clean it up as you go. it doesnt have to be perfect, thats what 0.2 and 0.3 are for.
Hey, it’s not their fault people like me winged and moaned about the memory requirements
them aside, I’m looking forward to playing around with this program, but i’m happy to wait, “When it’s done” developers always release much better products than people who meet deadlines
I want my fat SongBug…
Remeber what you said :
Songbird beta coming soon!
3 weeks 1 day ago
This thing is beginning to look more and more like vaporware. We have seen enough pictures. Now when are going to see the real thing? If you can’t commit to a date, I seriously doubt the quality of your programming.
Does this picture means that songbird will eat about 100MB of RAM??
stop bitching about the memory requirements, stop rising to the bait of those less-than-optimistic commenters, just do your thing – all those little annoying things will get worked out in time. Flock occasionally maxes out my machine and needs restarting, but I’m still using it. Relax and try to keep this feed positive. Cheers.
Since this project is a merger of three other open source outfits, which i would assume would make up the majority of the codebase; What percentage of the final product would you think quality programming on the side of the pioneers of the inevitable would effect?
I fail to see how a bunch of people with a track record of delivering media players to the public can be advertising vaporware.
Yes, you are correct, its vapourware until you have it in your hands. But surely downloading Firefox, VideoLan and SQLite should prove that large portions of code exist out there.
I refer you to a post further down the page, they bit off more than they could chew for a 0.1 release, and they havent been clear on that. But whos timeline are they working to? They have as much time as they decide to make the product work as they wish.
Referring you guess it’s probably around 100MB or how about 10′000MB or what is 1GB in MB. But the guess was near by.
http://www.hosthelp.com/sizematters.php
helps eventually.
To all who would like to have the beta:
- I’m also one who is waiting for the beta but as far im not the programmer I cant decide.
- I’m sure if they think the beta is ready it will be available as beta
- If you can’t wait, That’s bad because you probably have to.
- If you want the “beta” faster you probably have one chance work for them and make the beta available
http://www.songbirdnest.com/roblord/pages/songbird_jobs
To save mig some typing:
NOT A BETA
NOT A BETA
NOT A BETA
Not even “pre-alpha”
Proof-of-concept
Not a programmer are you?
When you’re developing something from scratch it’s very difficult to determine how long it’s going to take to release something you’re satisified with.
It’s better to release something late than to release something that’s completely unusable.
NOT A BETA
There is a 1,000 Megabytes for a Gigabyte. I am guessing that Songbird might have quite a few memory leaks right now. That would increase the memory usage to 1GB with the code bloating that was mentioned before.
yeah but hes only taken a bit out of it
Hahaahaa , some anonymous loser has doubts about your coding skills. Of course we all know that anonymous is a h0t cod3r and knows enough to evaluate others.
STFU you loser. Nobody is coding for you personally. Either use their product when it’s out or STFU, because who cares about what you think really.
I love your stupid ‘if you can’t commit to a date’. Like who are you? a venture capital person giving them money? fuck you
You tard. The cartoons show that they have a sense of humor about all the bitchy nerds such as yourself.
The joke’s on you mutherfucker.
1024 MB!!!
Nice picture guys, now as for some of these impatient fucko’s. Piss off. End of.
Keep up with the progress
I look forward to seeing Sonbirds first release.
No, it means it will use about as much of a gigabyte as is eaten in the picture.
Refer to the previous post to real RAM numbers coming out of my dev build at the moment.
0.2 is for things like a public cvs feed and a full build system.
Right now, our build instructions are going to read something along the lines of “DON’T.”
That’ll probably piss alot of people off, until I explain that having our code doesn’t mean they can magically port it to any linux distro.
And that the things we do in code that actually require a build system aren’t overwhelmingly interesting anyhow and that most useful 3rd party work on songbird will likely be done in js.
mig
this build better live up to its pre-alpha label, thats all i gotta say
just curious, theoretically you could put this in a firefox tab, right? like Calendar & sunbird?
theoretically, you could load our mainwin.xul into a firefox tab, yes.
functionally, you have to have support windows and such available and running to make anything work properly.
xulrunner wants to fire off top-level windows when it starts up. we assume that.
I’m not going to worry about testing us being loaded under firefox.
Every week it seems I keep popping back and watching the progress of this great project, keep it up guys your doing well.
As for all the people who shout vapourware ect, some of you are not even programmers, I am a programmer or developer however your want to put it, and yeah it is hard to keep to deadlines. So give them some slack there working for free!
Great concept image, soon as I see it I understood it
. The funny thing is all the 14yr old kids saying “oh noes its using 10mb of my 1gb RAM ARGH!!!1″ really need to grow up and realise that technoledgy is growing and becomeing more powerful, I.E scrap that P2 with 128mb of RAM! 
- Tom | http://www.tomwrote.info
I actually studied a whole component on designing estimations for programming output; however it was mostly just educated guessing coupled with some really nasty maths, which generally wastes more time than it saves;
And no, I’m not 14, and yes my machine is high specced, I just use it for something OTHER than trolling the internet
I get the joke to this and it funny. But yet I’m still quiet saddened. If you had released an alpha (even an unusable 0ne) you’d have gotten more programmers on and have gotten more work done with them reporting bug fixes to you to allow you to get this project done much more quickly and to give you a better advantage to the software at hand.
This is a Bazaar type thinking (A.K.A. Open Source EX: Firefox, Videolan, linux, and OpenOffice.org)
But in your case it seems more like Cathedral thinking. (A.K.A. Closed Source EX: Windows, MS OFFICE, Opera, and Photoshop.)
If atleast anything else atleast release the source code for other developers. You’ll help yourself more if you did this. You could have had most of these bugs probably fixed if you had released a buggy unusable alpha and source code last year at the end of christmas than still their waiting to actually get work done on it with your small band of programmers.
And if you were afraid of some losers downloading it and found it didn’t work and wanted to bitch at you. Then do what the Mozilla foundation’s done with Seamonkey and the newer alpha’s of firefox put up the unequally cruel message of “This software is unsupported! If it doesn’t work or it messes up your system do not post on http://www.songbirdnest.com for help or enter in to the chatroom to ask for help. No one will help you. So be forwarned.”
Try something like this and then you can finally push the baby bird out of the nest and see it start it’s first time at flying or watch it fall and kill itself for staying in the nest too long.
I agree with huan. If you would release it, it would get much support from the developers reading along. I know I would do my best to help develop it, and perhaps you need to setup a forum to contain these bug reports and fix suggestions.
I love the bird analogy
I believe they have restraints that are beyond them… that is why they havent released anything.
Well, despite how many people keep accusing us of everything but, we remain focused on making the core songbird application an open source project.
And since I keep repeating that, I’ll keep repeating this:
We DON’T have a build system. The “build instructions” for 0.1 are going to say “DON’T.”
The actual code that you would have to build with a compiler is minimal and uninteresting.
All the powerful stuff is in the IDL, and you don’t need to build your own songbird to implement your own objects conforming to our IDL.
The OTHER value in publishing source code is for people to port it to other platforms. However, that task is NOT small, that task IS being worked on by us, and that task WILL be completed in time.
Once we have some kind of understanding of how the public would build our stuff crossplatform — a real build process — then we’ll share that build process with everyone and invite everyone to build their own web player. But that’s for 0.2 on the roadmap. That’s when we embrace the “moderated bazaar” model similar to firefox.
You’re thinking “open” c++ vs “closed” c++.
I’m talking “open, but boring and complicated” c++ vs “open and totally cool” javascript.
You don’t need to get anywhere near a compiler to do your own thing with Songbird, so making a “public build process” is a much lower priority to making a “public demo” including our IDL that people can use as a platform for extensions work.
The reason Songbird was unable and is still unable to release their pre-alpha is that their team has been met with legal threats from J River, who feel singbird borrows too much from their Media Center interface. Anyhow, this is very unfortunate to say the least.
Dear God!!! It seems like you guys are going to get shot if you don’t tell people how much RAM it will take. It’s getting so annoying. How many ways are you going to tell us it uses a lot of RAM? So fu8king what?! Yahoo music engine uses 40mb for one song. Who gives a damn if that one stupid program (whatever its called, the one thats “A swiss army knife”) uses 7mb of ram. Yours != that. This is like a pre alpha. Let it guzzle the ram. Look at firefox, six tabs are 90mb. People don’t really care how much ram something uses. Quit shoving it in our face that this thing will suck up the resources, we get it already!
I hope i dont come off as pissed at the developers, though it seems like it, but seriously, theres always going to be people that complain about whatever taking up too much Ram. People can slap the word bloat on anything and it will work. If they want it to use less ram then they have two options. Buy more ram or edit the source code. But please, do not cause the developers more stress by complaining about the ram. People are already pissed enough about the delayed release and having to fix the high ram usage will just make it more delayed.
So the only thing i gather from this blog is that youre programming skills are lacking, you were heavily inspired by Jriver media center and your illustration skills have potential but arent quite there yet. smells like vaporware to me.
I’m working on RAM usage because I can’t ship my app and it’s something with which to keep busy.
Trust me, memory “concerns” aren’t holding up a release.
Hey I’d just like to break the flow and compliment y’all, I’m an open Source advocate and all that, I run Linux, and I’m a Music Addict. I also don’t have enough RAM to run everything I want to at once. I say all this because its what makes me watch songbird for a release so closely. I don’t know Jack about Programming (heck I’m a Poli-Sci Major), but I know that I would rather wait till Feburary for a buildable/cross platform release, then be stuck with code (released to a bunch of “developers” who’s biggest contribution will prolly be a del.icio.us bookmark extension) that is unusable and uncompilable to Users like me. So thanks for the Quality effort Songbird team, you aren’t getting the credit you deserve.
Uhm… please don’t take offense, I just want to understand. If you’re not a programmer, why do you care about compiling your own version of our software (as opposed to simply ensuring that all programmers who want to can compile us)?
This was a question that came up over dinner the other night — what value does the non-programming user derive directly from Open Source?
Directly, all we can come up with is a warm happy spot knowing that they’re supporting a movement that Microsoft would describe as a dangerous and subversive form of Communism.
So I’m a bit confused why an avowed nonprogrammer would want to wait until things were buildable, assuming that buildability is inherently uninteresting to the nonprogrammer.
(Ignoring, for a moment, my argument that our C++ code isn’t overwhelmingly interesting on its own ground and most of the things developers should get excited about are in .idl and .js files)
No offense taken at all. I think, again as a non-programmer, that I may have used a confusing bit of terminology.
What I said was I’d like to wait till things are buildable, as in (I think), I’d like to be able to download the source, and build the program workng on my Linux, like one must do with, say, MPlayer. I may have used the wrong word there… I assumed when you said un-compilable you meant, basically, for those of us who don’t program, but do have to build our software in some way (i.e. Gentoo users), Useless. As the code could be played with by someone who knew what it did, but the rest of us would ust sit there and get build errors all day.
So sorry for any confusion this may have caused, but I think I can make it up to you with a few answers to the benefits of open source (for morons like me).
1. Its Free, it will always be free (in some form). – I can’t gaurentee that iTunes won’t turn around and start charging me in the next month.
2. As I’ve said before, it’s cross platform because it can be compiled for each platform – even if I can’t, some programming programmer can and will make it work on my OS of choice.
3. OpenSource projects can live longer – If, heaven forbid, you all decide to up and quit this project (after you’ve released the source), others can take up the torch, and Songbird won’t become Sonique.
4. We can request features of our programming buddies – ’nuff said.
5. It’s free – I know I already said it, but damnit I’ll say it again, I can trust OSS not to spy on me, and not to charge me.
Hope it helps… I guess…
Keep up the good work songbird team, I’m behind you 127.3%
Right, then, so far as Gentoo is concerned, 0.1 is “Useless” and 0.2 is where you get to play along.
Still, insofar as “I want to make this work on my Sparc!” goes, it’s going to be hard for someone to do that. They’ll have to figure out how to make the system-specific stuff (especially VLC) compile properly on their Sparc.
Announcing release dates and then blowing them off would not be so bad if you had proper explanations and did not resort to posting inane pictures that no one really cares about.
Have the developers of Songbird learned nothing from others that promised an item then failed to deliver on time?
Release the darn thing as Beta with the usual warnings and let users start giving you proper feedback like Mozilla does with Fx and Tb.
The longer you wait to release the better your chance that many will lose interest and move on to companies that can deliver software when they promise to.
i know the drawings get us nowhere in terms of the product itself, but as long as they don’t take away from development time, i’m all for ‘em
actually, the drawings inspired me in a way. for all those people ranting about when songbird will arrive, i have a little songbird time-waster
http://brian.shaler.name/songbird.html
feel free to repost it if you like it. i would prefer that anyone reposting it would host the swf on their server. if you do, there’s no need to link to me or anything.
enjoy!